We’ve had so many requests to post this, we decided just to go ahead and do it. Below is an excerpt from our password protected post GR & Copyright (leaving out the confidential information of course.) We’ve gotten literally hundreds of authors emailing us to ask us about how they can get their books removed from GR. One of those authors, who was the victim of a bully attack mentioned in Bully Attacks This Week, is now seeing posted and bashed BEFORE the book is even published. That’s right. The GR bullies are now rating and reviewing her book when it isn’t even done yet (you’ll notice a few familiar names):
I’d like to draw your attention for just a moment to . If you click on her name, you’ll notice that she has a brand new account. This is her THIRD account. To read more about Miranda, visit Miranda’s Request when she requested a reviewer remove her 5 star review of a book. Then Miranda staged a fake exit from GR in Miranda’s farewell by creating a new, private account. Now she has deleted both accounts and has created an entirely new one.
Uh… wow!
Anyhow, back to what I was saying… Authors who see this kind of thing happen to their books feel that since GR did not have their permission to post the books, they shouldn’t be allowed to. These authors are right to a certain degree. After doing quite a bit of research on the topic, we have discovered this:
- GR DOES NOT have the right to publish copyrighted material that they do not own.
- This material includes:
- Book cover images
- Book descriptions
- Author bio photo
- Author bio
- Book trailer videos or book promo videos
- GR does have the right to publish the following under fair use:
- Author name
- Book title
If you own this copyrighted material and want it removed from GR, the first step is to contact Patrick Brown and let him know in no uncertain terms that the material on his site is copyrighted, owned by you, and that Goodreads needs to remove it immediately:
Patrick Brown
Community Manager
Goodreads
Usually at this point, the material will be removed, but if it isn’t, the next step is to do a DMCA.com takedown. If you go to DMCA.com, you can do a takedown by yourself very cheaply or you can pay more and have them do it, but this will assuredly get your material removed from GR. If you do go through DMCA.com, you will need to provide links to where you have published this material and links to GR where the material was stolen. Hopefully it won’t come to this, but if DMCA does a takedown, GR will have no choice but to remove it.
If you know someone who wants their books removed from GR, please feel free to share this information with them.
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Addendum
Because of Amazon’s recent acquisition of Goodreads, if you attempt a takedown of your copyrighted material on Goodreads and your books are published on Amazon, Goodreads will respond with something like this:
Hello [author name],Unfortunately, we cannot comply with your request to remove the cover image and description from the book record, each of which are provided by Amazon. Under that license, we are able to display information about your book, including the cover image, for purposes of discussion, evaluation and analysis by Goodreads members.Best regards,The Goodreads Team
In KDP terms and conditions (and Createspace), there is a clause that states:
“5.5 Grant of Rights. You grant to each Amazon party, throughout the term of this Agreement, a nonexclusive, irrevocable, right and license to distribute Digital Books, directly and through third-party distributors, in all digital formats by all digital distribution means available. This right includes, without limitation, the right to: (a) reproduce, index and store Digital Books on one or more computer facilities, and reformat, convert and encode Digital Books; (b) display, market, transmit, distribute, sell and otherwise digitally make available all or any portion of Digital Books through Amazon Properties (as defined below), for customers and prospective customers to download, access, copy and paste, print, annotate and/or view online and offline, including on portable devices; (c) permit customers to “store” Digital Books that they have purchased from us on servers (“Virtual Storage”) and to access and re-download such Digital Books from Virtual Storage from time to time both during and after the term of this Agreement; (d) display and distribute (i) your trademarks and logos in the form you provide them to us or within Digital Books (with such modifications as are necessary to optimize their viewing), and (ii) portions of Digital Books, in each case solely for the purposes of marketing, soliciting and selling Digital Books and related Amazon offerings; (e) use, reproduce, adapt, modify, and distribute, as we determine appropriate, in our sole discretion, any metadata that you provide in connection with Digital Books; and (f) transmit, reproduce and otherwise use (or cause the reformatting, transmission, reproduction, and/or other use of) Digital Books as mere technological incidents to and for the limited purpose of technically enabling the foregoing (e.g., caching to enable display). In addition, you agree that we may permit our affiliates and independent contractors, and our affiliates’ independent contractors, to exercise the rights that you grant to us in this Agreement. “Amazon Properties” means any web site, application or online point of presence, on any platform, that is owned or operated by or under license by Amazon or co-branded with Amazon, and any web site, application, device or online point of presence through which any Amazon Properties or products available for sale on them are syndicated, offered, merchandised, advertised or described. You grant us the rights set forth in this Section 5.5 on a worldwide basis; however, if we make available to you a procedure for indicating that you do not have worldwide distribution rights to a Digital Book, then the territory for the sale of that Digital Book will be those territories for which you indicate, through the procedure we provide to you, that you have distribution rights.”
To get around this, you will need to remove your books from Amazon and then demand the takedown. Some find that it’s not worth the trouble. Others disagree. The decision is up to you.
Hooray! I wonder how long it takes to get it down though. Anyone have any idea?
From what we’ve heard, it has taken anywhere from a day to a couple weeks. I guess it depends on how aggressive you are about it.
I’m trying it. I’ll let you know.
Yeah, let us know how it goes.
If the crazies are jumping ugly on your blurb and cover art before your book is even available to the public, do you advise always emailing Patrick Brown first to have your material removed, or is it advisable to avoid screwing around and just go the DCMA.com route right off the bat?
It’s up to you. Going the DMCA.com route will definitely work, but it costs money. Emailing Patrick to let him know that if he doesn’t remove it, you will do a DMCA takedown might save you some money.
It’s like these dumb people think a public place like GR is a gossip session. They should have been sending each other private messages or e-mails instead of posting things like that in public. It’s not that they can’t have an opinion. It’s more about no one cares about their opinions. So do it in private.
There really are a lot of dumb, mean people out there these days. And as a reader I don’t trust anything anymore.
Don’t know if you saw this, but Amanda W. is now going after Anne Rice. And Looney and the rest of them are in the background egging it all on. http://hippiesbeautyandbooksohmy.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/an-open-letter-to-anne-rice.html
Well, I tried option 1, but received this response:
We legally obtained metadata about your books (cover image and description) from the Ingram Book Company through a licensing agreement with them. As such, we will not remove the information.
Sincerely,
Patrick Brown
Director of Author Marketing
Goodreads
If they receive the cover images and book descriptions by license from Ingram, I’m not clear on what good a DMCA notice will do. I’m going to have to look into it – at the moment, I’m assuming that Ingram has a connection to Createspace, but will return when I have more info.
That’s crap and Patrick knows it. He’s messing with you. It doesn’t matter where they got the material, if you are the legal copyright owner of it and have not given GR permission to publish it, they MUST remove it. As of now, you have the right to sue them, but I would recommend doing a DMCA takedown first. DMCA.com will force them to remove it.
I need to remember to check the box to notify me with responses… Oh absolutely the copyright owner and all titles are registered with the US Copyright Office too. Really? So this dude is busting my chops? Well, they’ll get the DMCA takedown request next.
I actually returned to this post to tell you that the license through Ingram was from enabling Expanded Distribution (ED) in Createspace. I do not know enough on the topic to determine if my activating ED gave anyone beyond Ingram a license, but I did inform Mr. Brown that I have disabled ED in Createspace and would follow-up over the next 6 weeks to make sure tht all covers and book descriptions have been removed. So now the roving gang has cost me $s as I have sold books through ED for a few years. At the moment, my only concern is that my copyrighted material is removed from that awful site.
Thank you for the info – going to send the takedown demand and see if it happens faster.
A DMCA Notice must be sent to the DMCA Agent:
Name: Otis Chandler
Attn: DMCA Notice
Company: Goodreads, Inc.
Address: 1444 9th St Suite B, Santa Monica, CA 90401
Email:
If you’d like me to post a copy of a DMCA notice, just say so and I will post it.
Johnny,
I wanted to update you on this problem. I tried the nice route via Patrick Brown as you suggest here. When he refused me, I sent DMCA notices for each title on GR (to the DMCA agent) with links to each edition they show on the website. I just received this response:
“Thanks for your messages. Unfortunately, we cannot comply with your request to remove your book records, as there is no infringement present on our site. We legally obtained records of these books from licensing agreements with Ingram Book Company and other third party aggregators. As the books are on Amazon, we are permitted to use that information as well. We are not selling or distributing the books on the site, and we are within our rights under the US Copyright Act to continue to display information about your book, including the cover image, for purposes of discussion, evaluation and analysis by Goodreads members.”
Regards,
Kara
____________________________________________
Of course I responded and informed them that I would be contacting my attorney. I will update at some point in the future. As far as Ingram licenses are concerned, I already removed Expanded Distribution in Createspace (at a serious cost to me because I actually sell books via ED every month). I will check the other three places that I sell through (Google, KDP, and B&N Nook) and see what the agreements state.
At this point, I do not think Kara knows what she’s talking about. They should have had an attorney or at least the legal department respond, but no matter – we will see what’s next. Sheesh – Megaupload was easier to get to remove copyrighted material than these people. 😉
Johnny is right. Kara is wrong. If you own the copyright and did not give them permission to use it, they must remove it. Unfortunately, it appears as though contacting Kara or Patrick directly will just render the same BS answer. What you have to do is get DMCA.com to remove the material. They will contact GR’s ISP and force the takedown.
Athena,
Oh I agree that Johnny is correct. I just want you to be aware of the trouble they’re giving me. I sure didn’t contact this Kara person – I sent a DMCA notice (I know how to write one) for each title with all GR links to the copyright agent (Otis Chandler) as outlined in the Terms on GR.
They do not intend to comply and want to fight. When sending DMCA notices to the copyright agent results in an email from Kara (a community manager), they’re basically saying that they do not care about the law. The fact is that I do not like GR because of what I have experienced firsthand and what I have read here. I don’t like them so much that if forced into a corner, I’ll stop selling via anyone that they receive any sort of license through, and that includes Amazon.
Am I mad? No, not really, but I guarantee that I am as serious as a heart attack. haha
Just so you know that I know how to write a DMCA notice – I don’t think I missed anything:
Name: Otis Chandler
Attn: DMCA Notice
Company: Goodreads, Inc.
Address: 1444 9th St Suite B, Santa Monica, CA 90401
May 00, 2013
Dear Mr. Otis Chandler:
The copyrighted work at issue is “title” written by me, [name], and published by [my company], LLC a limited liability company which I am a partner of. This title is registered with the U.S. Copyright Office.
Pursuant to 17 USC 512(c)(3)(A), this communication serves as a statement that:
1. I am the exclusive rights holder for “title” published on July [full date] with the paperback ISBN-13: [number];
2. These exclusive rights are being violated by material (the book covers and the book descriptions) available upon your site at the following URLs listed below:
3. I have a good faith belief that the use of this material in such a fashion is not authorized by the copyright holder [my name], the copyright holder’s agent [my company LLC], or the law;
4. Under penalty of perjury in a United States court of law, I state that the information contained in this notification is accurate, and that I am authorized to act on the behalf of the exclusive rights holder for the material in question;
5. I may be contacted by the methods listed below;
I hereby request that you remove all book covers and book descriptions and any other materials related to this title on your website in as expedient a fashion as possible. Thank you for your assistance with this problem.
name
company
street address
city, state, zip
email
telephone
Thank you for posting this. I think this will be helpful to our readers.
You’re welcome Athena. I think it’s important to add that on the few occasions that I have sent a DMCA notice, I’ve sent it via email. The fact that GR had a community manager respond to me instead of the person I sent the email to tells me that I must send the notices via certified mail, which I will do this week.
There may be license related issues that allow GR to respond as they did. I spent some time this afternoon reading through agreements anywhere that I sell and have questions that I will call each reseller about this week also. Any reseller that has a licensing agreement with GR will be eliminated, even if it’s Amazon. But this is me and I wouldn’t expect others to react the same. I’m also working on other solutions to sell on my own and on my website only.
This is not about regular books for me. Yes, I have a couple of regular books, but the issue concerns a business reputation and business related books and I also offer consultations when requested. Hell, it’s not even about the one BS review that remains on a business book anymore. I simply do not like the way GR operates.
I thank you for the information. This website is extremely helpful. I really had no clue why this group pursued my books with a vengeance and shelved using denigrating terms when I first came here. Ironically, I have a troll to thank for finding you! 😉
Goodreads is still denying they have to remove book covers. My book has only been published at Smashwords, never at Amazon and I have asked them twice to remove it. Here is there response:
Hello Authors Name,
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, we cannot comply with your request to remove your cover image, as there is no infringement present on our site. We are not selling or distributing the book on the site, and we are within our rights to continue to display information about your book, including the cover image, for purposes of discussion, evaluation and analysis by Goodreads members.
Best regards,
The Goodreads Team
Notice that this was sent by “The Goodreads Team” with a cc to Mr. Brown although my email was to Mr. Brown.
My DMCA takedown is not going as outlined above. According to anne at DMCA, Goodreads commercial exploitation of my cover is covered by “fair use” and they will not guarantee a takedown according to their email:
“This type of content will be considered Fair Use under the DMCA. The site owner or host would not be obligated to remove such content with a DMCA takedown notice.
More on Fair Use:
https://www.dmca.com/Solutions/View.aspx?ID=da9a413e-c0d0-4732-a378-02951509020e
We can send out a Cease and Desist on your behalf through our Professionally Managed service however this would not be applicable to our guarantee.”
Am I dealing with the right person?
If your books are on Amazon, GR has a right to use the covers per the contract you sign with Amazon. If they aren’t, then using your copyrighted images is a violation of copyright and does not fall under fair use.
The single book in question was only published on Smashwords and was never on Amazon or anywhere else. The cover picture and book description that GR swept up was displayed on Smashwords only. I am willing to pay DMCA for a takedown if it is guaranteed, but the book in question is free so I don’t want to proceed if they can’t get the cover removed. Of course that’s one of the reasons the book is only at Smashwords, because it’s a free book.
DMCA appears to be useless. This is their final message:
“We have gone up against this site many times. They are always kicked back to us as Fair Use. We can send the takedown notice for you but we will not be able to apply our guarantee as we are quite certain of the outcome.
Kind Regards,
Anne”
Waste of time and effort. Authors beware.