Archive for August, 2015


Our attention was pointed to something very interesting today. We usually don’t post on the Amazon fora. We haven’t in a while simply because we recommend that all our visitors and readers just stay out of the place, but , we couldn’t pass up. It is a perfect example of why we give this advice.

It first starts off with a discussion started by an author, Emma Paul:
EmmasPostFirstTwoResponsesYou will notice that right off that they are suspicious her motives simply because she is an author. Right there, we see a prejudice against her because of who she is, as if she is evil – someone who should be mistrusted and despised. She had no hidden agenda or motive. Emma simply wanted to have a decent conversation with others. That was her only “motive” as she says in response to their comments:
EmmasResponseAnd so goes the first page, with nothing major happening until the second page where two well-known trolls arrive (John Green and Mahala Burlingame), stirring up drama and accusing Emma of trolling (you will see how they immediately try to derail the topic of the conversation, provoke Emma into a fight, and then trash talk other people):
JohnMahalaEmmasResponseToMahalaMahalaEmmaAnd from here, it just gets worse, the conversation deteriorating into what you normally see in the fora. Some examples (please note the accusations made against others by the trolls are precisely that – accusations, nothing more):
MahalaLyingEtherealBruinsGalHJMahalaHJLessaMahalaNoBFFMahalaFalseFriendlinessAbusiveAuthorAccusationAnd this one just topped the whole convo off perfectly: the trolls swarm in, start a fight, and then expect an apology:
ApologyUn-freaking-believable! All Emma was trying to do was start a polite conversation, but the trolls (i.e. Mahala) wouldn’t have it. If you read the thread, you will notice how she pushes and provokes Emma into a fight despite Emma’s efforts to keep the conversation civil. It’s hilarious how Mahala insists that Emma is such a horrible person for doing and saying all these terrible things and being disingenuous, because we all know how innocent Mahala is, right? She’s so persecuted, isn’t she?

In the end, Emma felt so bad about how the conversation turned out, she went back and deleted the original post. Good thing we have everything recorded, just in case our readers want to see the entire convo.

Now, the question is, if you are an author, or really anyone for that matter, can you start a discussion in the fora that will remain constructive and civil and possibly provide useful information for everyone reading it without the convo degenerating in to insults, ad hominem attacks and other forms of verbal mud-slinging?

The answer is no. As long as the AFT (Amazon Fora Trolls) are free to roam and target people as they wish, there is no possibility of having a discussion like this wherever they are. The trolls are not content with having a polite conversation. They thrive on contention, conflict, and drama. They love to spew their hatred and destroy whoever they can, especially if it is an author. And this is precisely why we caution people and counsel them to stay out of the fora.

Our advice when encountering these bullies’ nonsense?

1) Don’t ever apologize to them. First, they don’t deserve it, and in fact, they are the ones who should be apologizing to others. Second, they won’t forgive you for whatever perceived wrong you’ve done them. Nothing makes these people happy.

2) Ignore them and their taunts. If you are in the Amazon fora and run afoul of them, just act like they aren’t there.

And finally:

3) Get away from them as quickly as you can. We recommend just steering clear of the Amazon fora altogether, but we know there are those of you out there who like to participate in some of the discussions and there are a few (and far between) convos that are troll free. The point is, trying to have a civil discussion with these people and get through to them is a complete waste of time. Save that time to do other, more productive things, like… well, like writing, or reading and sharing your thoughts on books with others who are mature enough to engage in friendly conversation. Much more satisfying and you’ll probably make a friend or two in the process.

And that’s it.

Take care out there in cyberspace.

Peace out.

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An addendum.

More attacks on Emma:

MoreAttacksOnEmma

More name calling, this time between two other people:

NameCalling

So, yeah, don’t even bother trying to talk to these people.  They don’t do polite conversation.  It’s too boring for them.

And that’s the truth of it.

Note: this article is about John Green the blogger, not the famous author of Fault in Our Stars.

Why do the bullies spend so much time trying to destroy authors? I don’t know, but there’s definitely a pattern emerging with these people, as many of them are ostensibly authors themselves—sort of. They are authors in the sense that they try to write a book but never quite complete it, which is also likely why they act as though it is such a trivial and easy process to create a novel yet fail to complete any of their own.

Much like Ginmar, who churns out poorly written fan fictions but has never managed to create something original and complete, John Green is a “writer” in name only, as his super-duper amazing fantasy book has been in the works for years but somehow he’s never managed to complete it. And yet, despite never actually experiencing the pressures and challenges of finishing and publishing a novel of his own, John is a self-appointed member of the “book police,” using his blog to demean, malign, and publicly shame victims whom he feels have violated his code of “author behavior.”

Yes, an “author” who cannot even finish a single book wants to tell other authors how they are to behave, write, and think. And should you run afoul of his guidelines, you can expect a thorough public shaming courtesy of his blog. Often it’s just filled with vulgar demands telling author’s to “fuck off” despite the fact that he’s the one up in their business.

Foff

Rest assured, however, that his commenters are just as lovely and charming as he is. Just ask one “Mike Ledo,” who had the following to say about an author who had an opinion he didn’t agree with.

MikeLedo

Much like his bully friends, John goes pretty far to find material with which to attack people. If you’re an indie author, expect to have people like John Green crawling around your Facebook at all times looking for something to screengrab.

Shortly after bombarding an innocent author’s books with one-star reviews, John took it upon himself to monitor her Facebook to further shame her.

JohnMonitorsFB

Yep, John sure does love to use his blog to shame authors for stupid reasons.

Err, I’m sorry. Did I say blog? As in one? I actually meant blogs. Because apparently, one attack blog isn’t even enough for these people anymore. No, he needs to have two attack blogs—that we know of. We recently discovered that he is also the user GreyWarden on Booklikes, which opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms. If you look into the upper-right corner of this archive, you can see his identity.

As usual, if you think he’s vicious on his own name, he’s even worse on his formerly anonymous one, because he’s also delusional and paranoid in addition to being downright mean. On his second attack blog (because of course he has to have two), he pens bizarre articles in which he somehow attributes street harassment of women to Anne Rice. Don’t ask.

But mostly, it’s just hit piece after hit piece. And if not written by him, then reblogged by all the usual suspects, such as Mahala R. Burlingame

Maggie

Here, you can see him defending the reprehensible actions of Jenny Trout, who had a black woman’s innocuous book pulled down for being “racist towards black women.”
​We advise you stay clear of this nasty bully, but under no circumstance should you give in to his demands. Even if afraid, remember that allowing these people to police you gives them the false sense of moral justification to police others.

Well, this isn’t a surprise to us.  We’ve seen so many of the bullies pull this kind of hypocritical nonsense before.  John Scalzi, an author who has attacked and berated other authors for promoting/reviewing one another’s books without disclosure, breaks his own code of ethics and does exactly that:

1

2

Sigh.  We could have seen it coming and we’re pretty sure there are more Bullies As Authors who do the exact same thing.

This is a good lesson actually.  You will want to be wary of authors who chastise others for “BBA behavior” which is a fabricated term made up by the bullies and their “code of ethics”.  Authors who do this are opportunists looking to curry favor and are, the majority of the time, guilty of the exact same “BBA behavior”, and usually much worse.

Apparently, Amazon is cracking down on the discussion forums and its problem with troll infestation.  If you go to any discussion forum you will see this at the bottom of the page:

NoMoreDiscussions

And how do the trolls feel about this?

Not too happy.

NoMoreDiscussions2

We take this as a good omen.  This is a step in the right direction, to a forum-free, and thus troll-free, Amazon.

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