We’ve been meaning to write this post for a while. Sorry we are so late in doing it.
In our last post on Anne Rice, we showed you how she has been lighting up the Amazon fora with her wisdom and advice for authors. We also mentioned her unfortunate encounter with the bullies :
Note her Warning to Authors at the bottom. Unfortunately, like everyone else who has braved the discussion threads of Amazon, Anne too has noticed the hostility and general contempt that the AFT (Amazon Fora Trolls) have for authors. In fact, we published some of her comments on this topic in our post, Words of Wisdom From Anne Rice.
So… do you think she got attacked for her warning? You bet.
Has she stopped posting and offering her advice to authors? Nope.
In fact, she has responded to the trolls with such sophistication and eloquence, it seems they don’t really know how to respond to her. She’s too smart and trolls tend to be … well … not so smart.
In our post today we’ll show just how smart she is. She was immediately able to see right through the Amazon bullies and make intelligent observations that get right to the heart of the matter and reveal these nasty people for who and what they are: internet trolls. What’s more, she managed to isolate all of the most well-known trolls who stalk authors and their books simply because they have nothing better to do with their time.
First we’ll show you her general view of the Amazon bullies:
Next, her exchanges with Anna Karenina, the most prolific AFT in the fora who thinks a little too highly of herself and her self-appointed intellectual prowess.
And here is her exchange with Cathyr:
Her exchange with Jane:
With Lady Lucretia
And finally, with Mayhem or Moonlight Reader or whoever:
It is interesting to note how she keeps asking them what they’re doing in the MOA (Meet Our Authors) forum. She is right. They have no reason to be there and yet they keep coming back to harass her, revealing their true intentions: to seek and destroy.
Anne, like the rest of us, has also found it astounding that the bullies think authors are like children who are to be scolded and talked down to when they “misbehave” according to some inane and entirely bully-invented rule that the authors should have automatically known:
She also happens to notice a few more important facts about the Amazon bullies: that they are small but loud, that they consider themselves self-appointed gatekeepers, that they attack customers as well as authors, that they twist words, that they game the system, that they can’t take criticism, and that they create a destructive climate on the Amazon fora:
But by far her most insightful observation about them is that not only are they so sure of their own superiority that they disrespect authors, they don’t even view authors as human beings:
And a perfect example of this “authors aren’t human beings” mentality can be seen quite clearly in Miss Mayhem’s words:
Uh… she thinks authors are just like people? She thinks? She doesn’t know?
Gosh, you know, I think the pope may be Catholic, but I’m not quite sure. He does this and he does that, just like a Catholic. So I think he’s Catholic, but I’m still not quite sure.
*major eye roll*
What? Can’t you tell, Miss Mayhem or Moonlight Reader or whatever you’re calling yourself these days? Of course, authors are just like people! They ARE people!
Anyhow… that’s it for today. That’s Anne Rice on the bullies of Amazon. So… what does she think of GR?
It says something that the bad press on Goodreads has had such a far reach that even literary superstars like Anne will have nothing to do with it. You see, although Goodreads has attempted in recent months to clean up its site, for many out there it was too little, too late. Its reputation as a legit and professional review site is shattered. As one of our blog readers stated:
GR booted most of the main trolls that had taken over their site. They even cracked down on their shelving and fake ratings. Unfortunately they acted too late and tarnished their reputation beyond repair. As for the bookraging trolls, they went out with last years garbage. Now they just complain and whine a lot or make fake accounts. They appear to lack the fundamental gift given to all lifeforms on earth – a life.
Quite right, Anonymous. Quite right.
« Anne Rice Lights Up the Amazon Fora New Bully on the Block: Greg »
If you haven’t yet noticed, the troll Anna Karenina and the organized gang of assassin trolls that patrol Amazon book fora are largely interested in attacking authors who self-publish books. Why? In their words, it’s to protect the public from reading books they believe aren’t ready for publication because they are awful or because they haven’t been professionally edited. Authors, such as Anne Rice, are protected by their publishers and aren’t the typical target of the Amazon Author Assassin Trolls. So why are these trolls from the Authors Behaving Badly (ABB) Review Gang going after a well-known, respected author? Simply because Anne Rice has been publicly encouraging young writers to self-publish, and because she’s confronted the Authors Behaving Badly Gang in the Amazon book fora.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The trolls of the Authors Behaving Badly Gang are NOT your typical insane, online trolls who patrol Amazon simply because they have no life. Don’t be naive. This is an organized group whose members WORK to write reviews that will alert the public that a book is unedited, poorly written, self-published, or containing objectionable subject matter. And WHY would anyone do so much WORK for free? Answer that question and you’ll begin to see behind-the-scenes truth.
When Jeff Bezos began Amazon he was criticized for allowing critical reviews of products, but he defended critical reviews as a fair and balanced way to protect the public from false good reviews.
I personally spoke with an Amazon employee who revealed that he monitored Amazon book fora. He, and other Amazon employees, get paid to interact anonymously online and oversee activity. His job is somewhat similar to an undercover sky marshal – get aboard and behave like a regular customer while covertly protecting Amazon and the public from fake good reviews, spammers, and perverts.
Amazon could easily eliminate trolls and does regularly ban online visitors who don’t follow the rules setup in the Amazon guidelines. So WHY is Amazon putting a stop to rude, crazy posters like Anna Karenina? Figure it out. She performs a service for Amazon. The ABB review gang, and others like it, are doing exactly what Jeff Bezos wants them to do: Alert the public to inferior products. Uh-oh. Amazon employees can’t possibly read every single book published onsite, so how do they determine which books are inferior? Every eBook uploaded to Amazon goes through an automated software program which not only scans for spelling errors, but also alerts the Amazon publishing team to a host of other issues, such as percentage of objectionable words, grammatical errors, etc. These books have a high probability of receiving poor reviews!
You see, Amazon has to maintain the public’s trust of good reviews since the majority of consumers polled said they rely on reviews when deciding whether or not to make a purchase. This explains why Amazon employees not only allow poor reviews, they view critical reviewers and bully review groups as allies in the fight against substandard products, and fake good reviews. Which is scarey because these gangs of critical reviewers have the power to destroy the reputation of an author and cripple book sales. So who can you think of who would want that particular kind of power…besides some lonely cat lady sitting at home with too much time on her hands? Could it be competing authors, publishers, publicists, agents, and editors who deeply resent self-publishing authors for diverting book sale dollars away from deserving publishing professionals? Put the Amazon employees hunting down false good reviews together with the bully reviewers with an axe to grind, and you have an unstoppable gang.
Authors are encouraged to self-publish on Amazon, but they aren’t being warned. If their work is NOT up to TRADITIONAL publishing standards, their work, their name, their reputation, and their livelihood may forever be damaged by poor reviews. Not to mention the corrupt Amazon Review system. Someone should tell Anne Rice that Jeff Bezos is aware of the vicious attacks on self-publishers, and his employees not only allow those attacks, they enable and participate in them. God forbid you confront one of the gang members, because it won’t matter if you’re a respected, traditionally published author like Anne Rice. They’ll attack anyone who threatens their power, their influence, their ability to make or break book sales. There’s no point in engaging the ABB review gang members. They’re just doing their job – protecting traditional publishers and protecting the Amazon review system. So don’t expect Amazon to get rid of the trolls. That’s not going to happen until the word gets out that many of those bullies work for Jeff Bezos.
It is true they target self-published authors but we’ve seen them go after traditionally published authors as well and with the same amount of ferocity. Anne is one. Emily Giffin is another. There’s actually an entire list of traditionally published authors that they’ve attacked. It could be true that Amazon is involved, but we have no evidence of that. Not conclusive evidence anyway. It seems odd though. Why would the world’s largest online bookstore that champions self-publishing be directly involved in such dirty business? What puzzles us is the fact that the trolls have attacked very well-written, well-formatted books, written by independent authors. This suggests that it has nothing to do with the quality of the books, but rather how they feel about a certain author. If their purpose is as you say, their behavior is certainly defeating it altogether.
Yes, the majority of the BBA attacks are directed to self-published authors, and traditionally published authors that come under attack are in the minority. If you don’t understand why the world’s largest online bookstore is involved in dirty business, then I haven’t done a proper job of explaining the situation. There are politics in play that you will not understand unless you have insight into past struggle between Jeff Bezos and several major publishers. Although there was a settlement reached between Bezos, the Department of Justice, and three publishers, it’s not all sweet water under the bridge.
http://floccinaucical.com/amazon-the-doj-publishers-and-readers-a-timeline/
To put it simply, everyone who is anyone in the publishing world is aware of the Amazon bully gang by now, and Bezos wouldn’t tolerate dirty business on his site if it didn’t benefit Amazon’s bottom line. I’d like to remind you that the most famous review on Amazon is a one star review posted by Jeff Bezos’ wife for a book she personally disliked – a book written about her husband. Positive reviews and fear of critical reviews are very powerful tools that Amazon effectively uses to influence not only consumers, but retailers, advertisers, and publishers. I don’t know how anyone can be oblivious to just how much money is lost or gained by using an organized reviewer group. The body of evidence is littered all over Amazon fora.
Does it not seem as if these ABB trolls are sanctioned by publishing groups (Amazon itself perhaps)? I have found that readers prefer certain styles of writing, as well as in book content, and those two items will be present regardless of editing or publishing… i have read tons of well respected and well published books that i have thought to be horrible, but then the reverse is true as well. maybe these are “assassin trolls” hired by publishing componies to try and persuade authors not to self publish?
Hi everyone! I realize I’m new here but I have to jump in. I’m not sure if anyone is aware of the Authors Earnings Report and the uproar it has caused between legacy publishers and indie/small press. The numbers are certainly not the final end all do all but they are strong indicators. You can view the report, see what went into gathering the information, and even download the raw data to crunch however you like.
http://authorearnings.com/the-report/
Watching the vitriol that exploded upon the release of this report, I am inclined to agree that when it comes to troll, there is a method to their madness. Are they being directed. I think trying to prove a conspiracy on that level will be next to impossible, but I am inclined to believe they have their own agenda.
Legacy publishers have granted themselves the title of gatekeepers. Those who support them also see themselves as the elite, protecting the unwashed masses from crap. Self appointed, self inflated, they attack any and all they deem unworthy. But the reason why I bring up the Authors Earnings Report is that it shows Amazon is completely benefiting from indie publishing. Here’s a quote:
“The other eye-popper here is that indie authors are outselling the Big Five. That’s the entire Big Five. Combined. Indie and small-press books account for half of the e-book sales in the most popular and bestselling genres on Amazon.”
Amazon bears less expense, less headache, and greater profit with KDP than they do dealing with the legacy publishers. I strongly doubt Amazon would shoot themselves in the foot on this one. The Big 5, on the other hand, are an entirely different story.
They were the gatekeepers, in power without challenge. They never saw the threat, never believed anything could shake their stranglehold. But now legacy industry professionals are publicly attacking indies and the readers who support them.
There’s blood in the water.
As everyone knows the more frightened someone becomes, the more they lash out. It’s getting really ugly.
Unfortunately paid trolling is a reality rather than the product of a conspiracy theorist’s rantings. It’s a proven fact in the music industry and in US Politics (most recently Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker) at any rate.
I’ve long suspected that many reviewers of self-published books were Publishing House shills.
So people, who think that they have the audacity and the complete knowledge of the universe to ascertain what a good book ” is ” or ” isn’t “, feel as though they should be general hard-asses and attack new authors? How about, they contact the author and ask them if they would like to receive the editing of their book, free of charge. Or, perhaps something similar. And then, they can converse like adults about what the Author wants out of their novel? Trolls should just stay under their bridges and leave people alone. This trolling doesn’t seem professional, it’s more like faux classy egg tossing that is trying to be perceived as a public service. Trolls are bullies, by their very nature; it does not matter what the context is.
It looks like Anne has disappeared from the thread. The bullies are now racing to post nonsense stuff until it reaches the Amazon forum limit which automatically locks the thread. Hundreds of pages of stupid stuff. No wonder so many find the forums there a total waste of time. >.<
(Yeah, I know, it's to be expected of the bullies. It's still annoying.)
I hope Anne starts a new one to continue offering help. I love how she remained so calm and well-spoken.
We know that Anne was sick for a while and stopped interacting with people on her thread. She is also working on a new book, so she’s pretty busy.
Excellent post. On Anne Rice’s Facebook page, she praises this STGRB article. I’m glad the bullies are now going to get additional national attention so all authors and readers on the web can be forewarned about who to avoid! These bullies are harmful, sadistic individuals.
Yes, we saw it. Our blog hits tripled today because of it. Good for Anne! She’s helping bring attention to a problem that has long needed a solution.
I HAD to Google her Facebook account to read the thread. Wow, what a great thread of comments after it. Yes, I saw one of the notable bullies try to come in and spread lies again. Now, come on. Didn’t we all expect that?
But, like in the Amazon forum, Anne was very level and clear-headed, speaking eloquently. Yay for Anne!
By the way, so did Athena. Athena, it was good to see you in there politely countering the lies. Thanks for doing that, as well as helping to keep this blog going to warn innocent writers about what they face out there in the literary jungle. It can be a dark and dangerous place.
You’re welcome, Booklover!
Did we expect that? Of course, we did. They’re so predictable, aren’t they?
I’m glad that she took the time to write down what she thought
It makes me sad though that there are people like that in Amazon of all places
Thank you so much Anne for your post. I’ve seen this happen to authors all the time. Most of these post you can read between the lines and can tell that the reviewer didnt read the book. This has happened to my friend on good reads and it has happened to me on barnes and noble’s website. My book was out for only two weeks and I got a bad review on grammer and under developed characters. This reviewer compared my book to the best selling twilight series. Clearly this person did not like twilight and the fact my novel has no vampires or werewolves in it makes ya think… Why are you here? And clearly you compared twilights Bella character to my main character because you already knew my characters name from the synopsis. I wish there was a better way to delete this post and hopefully it will stop. Thanks for your post again I will not let these poorly thought and written reviews stop me from writing and self-publishing.
*^-^*
Ugh, people are so disgusting and hateful. Good for you Anne (whom is one of my favorite authors). I wish more people would respond this well to them. I’m tired of the bullies always treating people this way, whether it’s on the internet or in day to day life.
As a soon to be author, I thank you for the forewarning of these toxic cyber bullies. Anne Rice, You have earned yourself a new friend. If you had any advice for someone placing their foot into the minefield, what should that person avoid to reduce the levels of this internet mafia tampering with ratings? Or is that all wishful thinking? Of course, good writing will propel someone forward, but are there things a person should avoid when marketing their first book?
I’m not Anne, but I have some advice for you as a victim of these bullies. The first thing I can say with any certainty is to avoid Goodreads, and Booklikes. Goodreads is a current haven for these people, and Booklikes is where they’re going when they cross the line and Goodreads finally evicts them. Whatever you do, stay away from Booklikes.
Unfortunately, the other advice I have for you is much more depressing. I hate to tell any person this, but this is what life is like for authors right now.
1. Do not ask questions. According to these people, because you are an author you are not entitled to ask questions, EVER. You’re just not allowed. Even if you think it’s innocent, just don’t. They will twist your words and warp them beyond all recognition. All it takes is one of them deciding they don’t like you to destroy everything you’ve worked so hard to build.
2. Do not interact. If someone leaves a trollish comment, or a negative review, or even just leaves you a 1 star without saying a word, DO NOT EVER ASK THEM WHY. DO NOT assume it is an innocent mistake. It never is. Asking them about it will draw the hounds on you, no matter how polite you are.
3. Do not have an opinion. If you express opinions, they’ll twist them against you.
4. Do not have friends. Sometimes all it takes for the trolls to turn on you is being friends with someone they don’t like. God, I wish I was kidding, but I’m not. I’ve seen this happen to several people.
5. Do not publicly express sympathy for another victim. Again, I wish I didn’t have to say this, but it’s true. This is what has caused some other people to become victims. If you want to offer someone your condolences, do it privately.
6. As an author, you are a second-rate human being, and do not deserve to use the tools websites provide for you. You’re not allowed to leave reviews. You’re not allowed to like posts. You’re not allowed to upvote good reviews or downvote bad ones. You’re not allowed to make blog posts. You’re not allowed to discuss other people or their books. You’re not allowed to have friends or family. You must SUFFER, because SUFFERING is the only thing you’re good for. (Note: I do not agree with this post, but that’s the way their brains work.)
I really wish there was some way that I could encourage you, but these sick f*ckers will turn on you, no matter what. The biggest advice I can give is to separate your author persona from your real persona completely. They have been known to stalk people, hack people, and even disclose personal information publicly.
This might help you. It’s a list of guidelines for new authors:
https://stopthegrbullies.com/2013/07/28/guidelines-for-new-authors/
Incredible!! What I learned here though is enlightening because as I delve further into research about internet trolling, there seems to be some explanations from professionals on this topic now. With Anna Karenina, you can plainly see the woman has sadistic personality disorder that she has never received therapy for.
http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/sadistic-personality-disorder/
(CNN) — If you’ve ever complained that the trolls junking up online comment sections are a bunch of sadistic psychopaths, you might be onto something.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/11/tech/web/online-trolls-sadists/
Sorry I’m a little late here but I just found this. I am currently writing a post for my blog about bullies but not the Amazon trolls (wait until ya read this one, the bully boggles the mind). Anyway, one thing I want to mention is that I’ve been serious in the publishing industry for almost 20 years now. I worked hard to learn my craft, to write for the fiction market, I worked just as hard to learn this profession as I did to learn the office manager job I had for 30 years. I self published, was I perfect at first, no, definitely goofed here and there, but I corrected the mistakes, learned from them and worked even harder. I’m an indie who just caught up on serious debt, breathed a huge sigh of relief that the bills are covered, and finished yet another manuscript to send to my editor (yes, I hire a freelance editor, who I researched history and qualifications just like a job interview). This is business, this is a competitive market, I want to produce the highest product I can. And then I want my next one to be better!
Writing is one of the only crafts I’ve encountered that people believe because they can speak and be understood, listen and comprehend, they can produce the next great American novel, make zillions doing nothing, and go fishing. I work harder now that I did in accounting! Lol!
But I don’t want to see the new aspiring writers get horsewhipped out of the industry. The gatekeepers need to be the experienced, who can encourage the new aspiring writer to learn, practice, work hard, make something that you can be proud of then rip it apart and make it better than before.
I started learning the industry long before ebooks hit, if it wasn’t for a local writers guild who cared about the craft of writing, who wanted to encourage new talent, who wanted to help the newbie who was dazed and confused to the most experienced but always has room to grow writers, I’d be right there, throwing crap at the walls, hoping it sticks and wondering why it came back to hit me in the face.
While creativity and talent have to be there, they need to work hand in hand with knowledge, practice and suffering through critiques (sometimes they hurt no matter how nice the person is, sometimes even the meanest, hateful, awful review can hold a nugget that can help improve an aspect of the story. And to the haters, success is the best revenge.
I am working to see something like my old writers guild to help the new indies and when the bully takes a swing, someone answers back.
And the gatekeepers were never the traditional publishing houses – the idea of good story is subjective. What they do know is marketability. They could care less if a story is good, if it’s marketable, then they can sell it, and make the shareholders happy with their fat profits because the authors are earning less and less nowadays, all the while readers get disgusted and throw the book across the room.
Anyway, had to jump in, sorry for the long post but it’s an issue that is becoming a problem. The programs in the schools for stopping bullying need to be applied to the adults who act worse than a child does. I should have my blog post up in a bit. You’ll be amazed at the vitriol.
Just to let everyone know, we are removing any identifying information from the comments to protect you. The bullies are constantly watching our blog so we want to keep everyone anonymous and safe.
Anne is awesome. I interviewed her on the subject of Amazon reviews some time ago.
It’s 5 in the morning, 15th of February, when I saw Anne Rice’s post in my Facebook newsfeed. I have a huge feeling that these trolls are Filipinos. Don’t get me wrong. I am a Filipino businessman and I am based in the Philippines. The usernames like Anna Karenina and Lady Lucretia sounded very Filipino to me. “Anna Karenina” was the title of a television series here in the Philippines during the 90′s. Last time I checked (I hardly watch television), they made a new version of the series just recently. “Lady Lucretia”, on the other hand, must have come from a native word “Lukring” which means Crazy. Also, basing from the construction of the statements made by these so-called bullies, I would say that such statements were made by either one or two persons. But I would say just one having the belief that the bully is also bipolar.
So why am I saying these? Because I never really liked bullies. Also, considering the fact that outsourcing jobs to the Philippines (administering forums, SEO, etc) are cost-effective for international businesses. So how do we actually know if my intuitions are true? We wouldn’t unless somebody can trace the IP addresses of those trolls. But even IP addresses can now be masked. Sigh.
I will support Anne Rice in fighting these bullies.
Interesting theory. You might be right about some of them, but for others, we know who they are and where they live. For example, we know Anna Karenina’s real name and where she lives. So there does seem to be a mix of ethnic backgrounds among the troll population on Amazon.
Well, that’s good if you were able to figure out some of their identities. Just let me know how else I can be of assistance in fighting these bullies.
lucretia pronounced loo-cretz-ia is or was the daughter of a pope named borgia.
It is wonderful to see Anne Rice and STGRB working together, sharing each other’s blog posts and comments. Anne Rice is such an amazing lady, she is well able to deal with the Amazon trolls. One by one, the trolls came onto that Amazon thread trying to shout Ms Rice down, but she politely, yet firmly dealt with the trolls and then pushed them aside.
Anne Rice can see right through the trolls on the Amazon forums, she really gets what’s going on. She seems absolutely delighted with the STGRB blog post. I was thrilled to see that she shared your blog on her Facebook page. Well done STGRB! you guys must be over the moon. It is so heartwarming to read all the positive and supportive comments on Ms Rice’s Facebook thread after she shared the STGRB post. Her fans are so cheerful and pleasant, real nice, down-to-earth people. I saw a few trolls attempting to spread hate on her Facebook thread, but Ms Rice rightly deleted them. She isn’t interested in negativity and bitching. She is only interested in supporting authors. That is how it should be. What a truly amazing lady. She is so charismatic. Pure class.
I self published a book. I would say out of 500 people who purchase the book about 100-150 had a bad review. They wrote really eloquently or elaborately about how it was horribly written. I think what they missed was the book wasn’t meant to be a million dollar enterprise or a stepping stone to greater things. It was more so out of pure enjoyment of being able to write 80 thousand words and make it flow into a story. Also I had fun and it was suppose to be a fun goofy story. You can tell I love my characters. I also love making them live. I think Mrs. Rice has really great points. I would never attack another writer. We are all different others so than rest but in all general sense we all love the same thing. That is sharing the story and the people we have living in our imaginations.
I feel as though you missed the point here. Or maybe not the point of this article, but the point of reviews.
No one here, including Ms. Rice, is saying that bad reviews can’t be published. Reviewing at a book objectively and pointing out the flaws (bad grammar, poor character development, confusing story structure, under-developed world-building) is NOT what she’s fighting against. She’s fighting against unrestrained vitriol. “This author is clearly stupid and wouldn’t know what grammar is if it hit her in the back of the head” is inappropriate. “This book had many spelling and grammar mistakes that seemed to go beyond mere typos” is appropriate.
While I commend your dedication to writing and your enjoyment of writing, creating a story for funsies is different than trying to make money off it. If all you wanted to do was “love your characters,” why did you publish? If you weren’t prepared for honest appraisals of your flaws in the writing craft, why did you open it up for purchase by the public? Why make it available on Amazon? Why post it on GR?
This is one of the reasons that I believe these bullies are hurting the industry: They give a bad name to negative reviews. There IS a place for negative reviews, if done respectfully and factually, and they’re making it hard for negative reviews to have a place or be taken seriously. I don’t want to see an anti-bully backlash where anyone who posts anything but flowers and kittens gets bullied. Absolutely not.