Category: Carroll’s Looking Glass


Patrick Asks For Help

Well, well.  It looks as if Patrick Brown needs Carroll Bryant’s help in tracking down role-play groups that involve minors (see Carroll’s new post, Goodreads: The Aftermath of Shame).  He just recently sent an email to Carroll asking for help:

PatrickAsksForHelp

Now, before we show you Carroll’s response, we’d like to show you the email Patrick sent to Carroll on July 22, 2012, informing him that he was banned from GR:

PatrickTellsCarrollHesBanned

You see that?  Patrick told Carroll he was banned because he “repeatedly attacked fellow members in violation of their terms of service.”  This is what the bullies reported to GR after they attacked him and this is why he was banned.  Which we know is absolute bullshit given the evidence we’ve shown proving that it was Carroll who was repeatedly attacked, not the bullies.  Carroll was bullied, threatened, and libeled.  And to add insult to injury, he was kicked off of Goodreads for it.  If you don’t believe this, take a look at these three posts:

The Attack on Carroll Bryant

Bully Threats

Zoe Gets Busted

The injustice of this makes me shaking mad.  Add this to all the Bully Attacks that have happened to other authors on Goodreads and it literally makes a person sick to see this shit happen over and over again.  And guess who is responsible.  Guess who is not only letting it happen, but protecting those who should be disciplined for bullying others.  That’s right.  Patrick Brown, the GR community manager.  If you’re wondering where the root of corruption on the site comes from, all you have to do is look toward him and there it is.

And if you think this is bad, keep reading.  We’ll show you how Patrick flat out lied to GR members on a Goodreads feedback thread.  But before we do, we want to show you Patrick’s response to Carroll when he tried to tell Patrick that it was the GR bullies who attacked him and not the other way around:

PatrickOutOfOffice

Out of office.  Nice, huh?  He completely blew him off.

Now, when I read Carroll’s response to Patrick’s plea for help, I almost choked up a lung laughing.  You all have to check this out:

CarrollsResponse

Love it!  :D

Touché, Carroll!  Touché!

Now, we want to show you some screenshots we took from .  The first few shots are of GR members complaining about the botch job GR did in deleting the sexual role-play groups:

WhatsHappening

WhatAMess

WhatAMess2

WhatAMess3

Then, Patrick leaves this comment in response to their concerns:

PatricksBS

We know he’s full of shit because GR was told about this very same problem years ago by their members and they (they being Patrick and the other moderators) basically did the same thing to those members as Patrick did to Carroll – totally blew them off:

GRKnew

GRKnew1

GRKnew2

GRKnew3

So, this our message to Patrick:

Patrick, you blew off people when they tried to warn you.  Then, when these problems were exposed publicly, you tried to cover them up as quickly as you could.  And then, you lied about not ever having known about it.  AND you have the audacity to ask Carroll for help after you treated him so badly?  Seriously?!

First of all, you have no business trying to contact Carroll after you unjustly banned him.  Secondly, you are the Goodreads community manager and you have to ask someone who isn’t even a part of GR anymore for help to find these groups?

What?  You don’t know how to find them yourself?  What does that tell us about Goodreads’ management?  Lastly, you should have been on top of this from the beginning, from the time when other GR members told you about it.  You should have responded then.  You shouldn’t have let it happen at all and if you had been monitoring your website the way you should’ve been, this would have never happened.

This is exactly the point we made last July when you continued to let authors be attacked on the site without making any effort to stop it.  The only time you ever made an effort was when it blew up in your face and GR received all the negative media attention.  As one our site visitors said, you don’t care what happens on your site until it hits your bottom line.  That’s the only time you act.

Shame on you, Patrick Brown!  Shame on you for turning a blind eye to the abuse that not just authors, but other readers have suffered at the hands of the GR bullies!  Shame on you for ignoring your members when they tried to tell you about minors being exposed to inappropriate material!  And finally, shame on you for turning around and lying about it!

You need help?  Here’s a helpful hint.  Don’t bother trying to ask Carroll for help, because he won’t do it and he shouldn’t have to.  It’s enough that he brought the problem to your attention.  The rest is your responsibility.

It has come to our attention that there may be some readers who have misunderstood our stance on GR and porn.  Over the weekend, we had a group discussion on this issue and Athena asked me to post our views on the subject so that it will be clear to others.  When we say we don’t think porn belongs on Goodreads, we are not talking about books written in the genres of romance, erotic romance, or erotica.  We are not talking about censoring these genres like Paypal attempted to do.  In fact, we agreed with Joe Konrath when he spoke out on the issue of Paypal’s censoring saying something to the effect: anyone who tries to tell you what you can’t do is an asshole (meaning what you can’t do within the law.)  We agree with him.  If authors want to write romance, erotic romance, and erotica, they should be allowed to.  If people want to form groups that discuss these kinds of books and reviews of these kinds of books, we have no problem with that either, provided that they label the groups clearly as 18+ groups, take measures to keep kids out, and keep sexually graphic images off of the front page where kids can see them.

So our problem is not with these kinds of books or groups at all.  Our problem is with groups like the sexual role playing groups that Carroll found that had no controls on them with regards to age and let minors engage in role play with adults.  Our problem is also with groups like BDSM After Bedtime and all the others that were created for the sole purpose of inviting members to join so they can “get their kink on” and have all the kinky cyber-sex they want.  So, what is our problem with them?  Well, we ask the question: what do these groups have to do with books or book reviews or discussions of books and book reviews?  The answer is nothing.  They have absolutely nothing to do with them.  They are pure porn.  So do they really belong on Goodreads?  We don’t think so.  We think pure porn belongs on a porn site.

Many of us here at STGRB are parents and when we see groups like these with the graphic pictures on the front page, it raises cause for concern.  Our belief is not that romance, erotic romance or erotica should be censored.  This is not about censoring.  Our belief is that as an online community, we have a collective responsibility to make sure kids are protected from content that is inappropriate for them and to make sure they are protected from adults who would try to harm or exploit them.  The fact is that there is a HUGE population of children on GR, ranging from very young kids to teenagers.  GR is not just for adults.  There is a very large crowd on GR interested in children’s and YA books.  As adults, as readers, as authors, or as moderators of the site itself, we need to remember that and remember what is important and appropriate.

The reason we are irritated with Goodreads on this issue and the reason many of us have removed ourselves and our families from the site is because other GR members complained and warned GR about these groups a long time ago and Patrick Brown and the other people running the site ignored them.  They didn’t act on it until it affected their bottom line.  They behaved the same way with the bullies and bully reviews.  They were told of the attacks on authors but did nothing about it until it received all the negative media attention back in July.  What this tells us is that GR doesn’t really care what happens on its site and won’t bother to fix something until it has to.  This doesn’t sit well with us.

These are our views on the subject.  We hope this clears up some of the confusion.  If there are people who still disagree with us, that’s fine.  To each his/her own.  They have a right to their views and we have a right to ours.  And unless someone can give us a really good reason for doing so, we won’t be changing them just because there are people who disagree.

If anyone hasn’t read Carroll’s post today, Goodreads or Good Pedophilia?, we recommend it.  Now, we want to make something clear to our readers.  In C.Y.A., we’ve shown that Goodreads claims to have banned all sexual roleplay groups from the site, but in our post, Is Goodreads Really Safe For Kids?, we showed you that these groups actually haven’t been banned at all, but were instead just made secret.  Now, on Carroll’s post, he has shown you that many of these groups were, in fact, started by minors themselves.  So what does this mean?  It means that these groups, where kids are engaging in sexual role play with adults, still exist on the site, but instead of being out in the open where everyone can see, they are kept secret.  They are kept hidden from the public eye.

Does this sound familiar?  Doesn’t it sound exactly like what they did with bully reviews (i.e. reviews that review the author and not the book – posts on this to come)?

ReviewOfAuthor

You see, they didn’t remove these kinds of reviews.  They just hid them.  And now they’re doing the same thing with sexual role play groups, it appears.  Or are they?  How can we know?

Since Goodreads changed it’s policy on adult and sexual roleplay groups (to see new policy, click here.), it may seem the Goodreads’ environment is safer for kids.  But is it?  They now require members to enter their date of birth when joining an 18+ group.  And all sexual roleplaying groups have been nixed… but have they?  Here’s something interesting.  When you click on the link to the group, it now says that the group is secret.

GroupIsSecret

What does this mean?  Is the group gone or is it secret?

Moreover, entering your date of birth when joining an 18+ group does in no way stop a kid from lying about their age or even about who they are.  The problem is that just banning sexual roleplay groups doesn’t fix the problem of children being exposed to inappropriate material.  There are hundreds of these smutty groups on GR just waiting for kids to find them.  And they’re so EASY to find, too.  Just by doing a quick search, we found these two:

 (click image to enlarge)

 

TheErogenousZone

 

And  (click image to enlarge)

BDSMBeforeBedTime

I can just see some young, innocent kid, who’s not really looking for this stuff, stumbling onto it and saying, “Mommy, what’s BDSM?”  I mean, is this the kind of thing parents really want on a website that is supposed to be about books and literature and learning?  The fact that they allow these groups to exist on the site at all is questionable at best, deeply immoral at worst.  It troubles even me and that’s hard to do.

Now, I don’t have kids, but Athena, Stitch, Peter, and Tink do and ever since Carroll approached us with this issue on GR, all four of them have removed themselves and their kids from the site.  I personally believe that it was a good move.  If I had kids, I would do the exact same thing – delete my account and leave.  In fact, I’m contemplating doing it now.

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An addendum.  We just received this message and screenshot from a visitor:

This is a screenshot from my group with the definition of “Secret Group” and how members can find/become a part of it.

So just because it’s hidden doesn’t mean that people will stop the roleplaying; it would be interesting to know if GR has deleted all of the roleplaying threads or not…

GroupIsSecret2

What does this tell us?  That unlike what GR has claimed (quote from C.Y.A.):

Sexual role play is now not permitted in any group or any other part of the site.

These groups are not gone from the site, but are secret instead.  Got that, everyone?  These SEXUAL ROLEPLAYING GROUPS ARE STILL ALLOWED on Goodreads, but in secret.

Just wanted to make that clear.

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Another addendum.  Last one.  Someone at GR must have seen this post because now when you click on the link to the group, you see this:

CouldNotFind

What do we think?  We think this is GR doing what GR does best.  C.Y.A.  We wouldn’t be surprised if an investigation was done and it was found that these groups still existed on the site in secret.

Well that didn’t take long!  No one ever said GR didn’t know anything about CYA.  We just received this message from a site visitor:

I just received this since I created a group on Goodreads. It has to do with everything you and Carroll have been talking about the last few blog posts:

Dear Group Moderator,

We wanted to give you a heads up on some updates to our policies for groups on Goodreads. Groups are an important part of our vibrant community and we appreciate and value all you do as a group moderator. For many of our members, groups are a highlight of the time they spend on Goodreads.

As you may have already seen, we have made a few changes to how adults only (18+) groups work. As we have members who are age 13 to 17 on Goodreads, it’s important that we clarify how adults only (18+) groups should be operated on our site. We have therefore updated our guidelines for people creating and moderating groups on our site and you can view these here.

The two key points are:

• Anyone who wants to be a member of an adults only (18+) group, must have provided their birth date, and must be age 18 or older.
• Sexual role play is now not permitted in any group or any other part of the site.

Please read the guidelines for more details.

Important information for moderators of adults only (18+) groups:

• If you moderate an adults only (18+) group, any of your existing members who have not yet entered their birth date will be asked to do so before entering back into the group.
• Please note that members can opt to keep their birth date private (not visible on their profile).
• If any of your members are age 17 and younger, they will automatically have been removed from the group.
• Moving forward, if it comes to your attention that a member is actually 17 or younger, you must remove this member from the group immediately. If you have any questions regarding this, please email the Goodreads team at .

Thank you for helping our members enjoy book discussion that is appropriate to their age level.

Best wishes,

The Goodreads Team

Well, at least it’s good to see that Goodreads is taking these steps to protect kids, but it still doesn’t stop anyone from lying about their age.  That’s where the parents’ job comes in – to monitor their own children’s online activity.

As for our recent posts on the subject, check here.  Carroll’s post will be published today on The Looking Glass of Carroll Bryant.  He gave us a sneak peek and for those that are wondering, yes, it is an eye-opener.  Be sure to check it out!

More On Carroll’s Looking Glass

We just received this comment from Jenn regarding the topic of children being exposed to sexually explicit material on Goodreads.

The group that Carroll mentioned is not the only one that I have seen. Every time I go on Goodreads to check out new comments in my local book group, I can also see which groups have been most active recently. I saw one about role play, and got curious. So I clicked, and started reading some of the stories. They are horribly written, but I was disturbed by the intensity of it all. For the particular story I skimmed through, one of the players would start getting worked up if the other did not respond almost immediately. *shudders*

I logged on to my Goodreads just now to see what would “pop up” (sorry, couldn’t help myself) under the recent groups, and there is this one:

It can say Adults Only all it wants, but people can easily lie about their ages on these things. And their sex, and tons of other things.

And here is another:

So, we went over to these groups and after recovering from our initial shock, took a few screenshots this morning.  Because of their sexually graphic nature, we will only publish links to the shots (of course you can always click on the links above to see the images as well).

Smitten Boudoir Role-Play

Sexual Roleplay

Please note that the group, , does say that it is for adults only, but it’s also a public group and anyone can join.  Jenn is right when she says that any kid can create an account on GR and lie about their age.  Unless they get caught by their parents, who’s going to know?  As for , and they say nothing about age.

When we get a chance later on today, we will be collecting more information on these groups to share with our readers.  Anyone is welcome to copy this particular material from our blog and share it with others.  We told Carroll we would help him anyway we can with his new blog.  Others are welcome to as well.  We want the word to get out that this material is just sitting out there on GR in the open, waiting for kids to stumble upon it and Goodreads is doing nothing to stop it.

The Looking Glass of Carroll Bryant

Below is a guest post written by Carroll Bryant.  Carroll approached us just recently with some research he’s been doing that involves children and the type of content they are exposed to on Goodreads.  He asked us if he could share it on our blog.  This post will give you an idea of what he’s found.  It’s a bit disturbing.  Parental discretion advised.

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I started the new blog “The Looking Glass of Carroll Bryant” for several reasons. First, to address the bully situation I been having that has been well documented here on STGRB. I wanted to go person to person, to give each bully their own individual post and address their comments and accusations on a one on one basis type of thing. I also wanted to respond on all the blogs that have posted about me, talk about the bully group on GR and tell the full story, unedited, about the girl who started it all. I want to address her claims and this alleged email of hers that she has been showing and the whole nine yards.

I also wanted to tell some stories about my life, my history, to give people an indication of how I became who I am and why I think and feel or maybe even do some of the things I do, which includes talking more in depth about my bi-polar condition. Everybody should have their own looking glass. A mirror in which they can raise and look into and see themselves for what the truth is. These bullies don’t seem to want to do that so I am going to do that for them. But I also started this new blog because there was a story I have been contemplating on doing for quite some time. A story that would clearly cause a huge amount of controversy for the Goodreads website if this knowledge about what is going on there ever got out to the mainstream public. Quite frankly, I’m surprised it hasn’t gotten out by now. But be that as it may, I decided to open my new blog with this story. As my grandfather would say, “Everything is about timing.”

On Friday, February 1st, 2013, I will be posting on my new blog, a story about sexually explicit role-playing on the Goodreads website involving children and adults. I have screenshots and links to back everything up in my report. What I will reveal to the world is somewhat graphic. I tried to keep it as clean as possible, but there are a few screenshots with some very disturbing acts of sex being described. I only wanted to post a few so that everyone would understand how horrific it is and see for themselves what is happening. I also have plenty of evidence to show that this is really going on there and Goodreads founder, Otis Chandler, and Goodreads community manager, Patrick Brown, are doing nothing what-so-ever to stop it.

In short – children are at risk of falling victim to a sexual predator on Goodreads!

I’m not going to present anything from my report on here however, I will share with you what I did collect but decided not to use in the report. As you know, you collect all your evidence and just like putting together a movie, some of your gatherings you use and some you don’t. You weed through it all. Well, what I am going to show you today is what I decided to leave out of my report. You know, just to give you a little taste.

Anyhow, this first screenshot (and link) goes to the “” group. (I provided a link so that any of you who wish to dispute my claims can go and read it for yourself.) Now this group has 394 members in it. And you can go to the members list and click on profiles all day long and you will discover that there are both, children and adults in this group. Now, I am a little disturbed to know that Goodreads allows minors to roleplay in such a sexually explicit manner, it’s like their own under-age porn site or something. But to also know that there are adults participating with them too? Man, you are putting the honey right there with the bees. And one of those kids are going to get stung. If you’re a pedophile, Goodreads is hog heaven for you right now.

01 Anything roleplay banner

The interaction I am showing you today is about as mild as it gets. Trust me, it is a scratch on the surface when compared to the evidence I have on my article. Like I said, this is what didn’t make it into my report. Anyhow, we have 20 year old and someone by the name of with age unknown, however, I know this person is at least 18 because their profile is public. And I know they are two adults here but, keep in mind they are also in a group with children and … what they roleplay is very disturbing.

02 heartbroken profile03 marissa profile

Now for their characters, you will see in the that Heartbroken is playing the role of a 15 year old girl. And Marisa is playing the role of a 35 year old man, her step-father, Skylar. Now that is just creepy. And totally inappropriate if you ask me.

04 emmerson 1505 skylar 35

And in the next two screenshots, a couple of excerpts from their roleplaying. As you can see, they are clearly engaging in a sexually explicit verbal act between two characters that if they were real, would be a criminal act of child rape, and they are doing this in a group with children not only in the group, but they are mods of the group! It’s disgusting.

06 rp0107 rp02

So, as you can see, this is just the tip of the iceberg as to what you will see in my report on Friday, February 1st, 2013. I just thought it was about time that parents knew what was going on over at the Goodreads site with your children. And to let you know that neither Patrick Brown, nor Otis Chandler, are doing anything about it. They have allowed this to take place for God knows how long as it is. And who knows how much longer they will continue to turn a blind eye to this very dangerous situation. Parents, your kids are not safe from sexual predators on Goodreads. In fact, they are perhaps in more danger from sexual predators than if you lived next door to one. And this problem is not being addressed!

I also have a comment shot from a bully website by an Anon, claiming to be a moderator for these types of groups, that is also very disturbing. It clearly shows (or gives a great indication) of how Goodreads deals with the under-age problem and sexual roleplay groups. You’re not gonna want to miss it. But then that also raises the question, what will the bullies think? How will they react to this? Early indications are that they have figured it out what my article is about and they don’t seem too pleased with it. In my opinion, if you’re not outraged (by my report) at Goodreads for their lack monitoring then I would be inclined to believe you are on the side of pedophilia and support the pedophiles. However, if you are outraged at Goodreads after you read my report, then you are on the side of protecting the children. To me, it’s just that simple. And everything in my report is supported with evidence. Screenshots and or links. So there is no disputing the evidence. I guess after being falsely accused of being a pedophile for so long by the bullies, now we will finally get to see their truest of true colors when I take on the role of trying to protect the children from predators. And bring this matter on Goodreads to light. If they (the bullies) condemn me for it, then we’ll know – really know – where they stand, won’t we? But that is something STGRB can monitor and report on, how bullies respond to Carroll trying to protect the kids. That should be interesting within itself. We’ll see how much more of their hypocrisy reveals itself.

That’s “The Looking Glass of Carroll Bryant” – My first article titled: “Goodreads: Or Good-Pedophilia?” – This Friday, February 1st, 2013.

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Be sure to check out Carroll’s post this Friday.  We certainly will be.

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